Mr. Berlusconi was able to govern Italy for as long as he did mostly thanks to the incompetence of his opposition. It was so rabidly obsessed with his personality that any substantive political debate disappeared; it focused only on personal attacks, the effect of which was to increase Mr. Berlusconi’s popularity. His secret was an ability to set off a Pavlovian reaction among his leftist opponents, which engendered instantaneous sympathy in most moderate voters. Mr. Trump is no different.
Mr.
Published
Never Stop Posting 
I’m not sure Trump actually engenders sympathy in voters, moderate or no. His voters sure do seem to enjoy it when he lies to them about shaking things up in their favor, though!
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Math Increasingly Suggests Election Fraud Against Hillary Clinton
Unfortunately, the dynamic has not ended with the election. Shortly after Mr. Trump gave his acceptance speech, protests sprang up all over America.
What are these people protesting against?
*ZOMFG the NYTimes are clueless feckless imbeciles.
Trumop doesnt have a mandate, The people need to warn him now. Trump lost the popular vote by almost 2 million votes
Whether we like it or not, Mr. Trump won legitimately.
Math Increasingly Suggests Election Fraud Against Hillary Clinton
*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC8l-0e3pd0
_Denying that only feeds the perception that there are “legitimate” candidates and “illegitimate” ones, and a small elite decides which is which. If that’s true, elections are just a beauty contest among candidates blessed by the Guardian Council of clerics, just like in Iran.-
If the paper did its actual job of explaining Trumps breaking of democratic norms, and pledges to do more, no one but a power sucking junkie would make this comparison.
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“doesn’t have mandate?”
What bullshit is this? If the popular vote selected the winner then there would be no electoral college.
If you were campaigning to abolish the electoral college then great, excellent, but it seems that no one who even wins it has an appetite to do such a thing.
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Getting back to the original post — yes, I agree. Clever snark, supercilious analysis, and secret enjoyment of Trump’s surreal reality show aren’t functional approaches to beating back a fascist coup.
On the other hand, neither is comparing Trump to Berlusconi. True, both are showmen and both are fundamentally narcissist kleptocrats, not fascists. But Trump is surrounded by true fascist actors armed with ideology and process.
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John Hardy not a Turnbull fan He definitely has no mandate – his destructive actions only back that up.
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No Mandate. Hillary is in track to win almost as many votes as barack
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John Jainschigg There’s more than a superficial similarity to Berlusconi, right down to his support from fascists. The problem of Trump is similar in that he is immune to the conventional outrage of liberals and their attacks will only serve to strengthen him in the eyes of his supporters. I’m not telling anyone to give up opposing him, I’m just suggesting that they get smarter about it.
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Greg S and Adam Black would you agree that Hillary would have had no mandate to enact her program if she had narrowly won the election in the college but lost the popular vote?
The problem here is that the votes she won that added to the popular vote were all in states she already had. Californians really don’t want Trump etc. But that’s not how the rules work, it is a contest of state delegates and she didn’t win enough of those across the country.
In other words the popular vote is not the way the president is chosen. I agree thats wrong but it is the rule that everyone knew before the election.
So as for “mandate” which I take to mean the legitimacy of winning and the right to enact a political program on behalf of the population that elected him, then I think that’s a fact. He won legitimately.
If mandate means “because I like him” then sure, he will never have that in the same way that Obama never had that amongst his opponents no matter what the outcome of the vote. Despite winning both the college and the popular vote, he was never legitimate in their eyes.
I just think that this split definition of what constitutes victory in us presidential elections is highly problematic. ALL close elections have a high probability of producing a split vote between the college and the popular vote. This is a flaw in the system which challenges the legitimacy of anyone who won one but not the other. This easily could have happened to Clinton as well. Is this a good way to read every presidential result or is it just a technicality? Only losers ever bring it up.
Is this travesty of the democratic process important enough that a campaign is mounted for a change in the method of vote counting so this is never repeated? Will this lead to the abolition of the presidential college system once and for all?
I agree that the college is arcane and stupid and that no one else uses it. I will point out though that it is still possible in most other countries to narrowly win the popular and still lose the election.
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Generally a political “mandate” suggests that there is an overwhelming amount of popular favor for the things you would enact. A victory like this (no matter who wins it) suggests exactly the opposite. Trump has no mandate and his (or his party’s) claims to one will be vigorously rejected.
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I agree that Trump did not have an overwhelming amount of public support and may not be able to claim a mandate. This however never stopped Dubya from successfully doing so despite also losing the popular vote. I guess we’ll see how it pans out.
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John Hardy not a Turnbull fan
What Greg S said. That just isnt what “mandate” means.
Saying he has “a mandate” , is to give sanction to Trump by reason of widespread popular will.
The popular will being thwarted , is why there are protests.
Losing the Popular by nearly 2 million votes is the opposite a mandate. In the same way the opposite of Up is Down. Its a back and white thing. Anyone who claims otherwise is trying to justify oppression with propaganda.
This isnt a legal argument. Rule-Lawyering me on the Constitution, is the strongest evidence he doesnt have a mandate. The Constitution doesnt say the word.
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My prediction Hilary win the Popular vote by at least 2.4 million votes .
( shes at 1.7 with about 4 million to count. )
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When Dubya was elected after losing the popular vote, the GOP trumpeted about having a mandate as well. (It wasn’t that long ago: does no one else remember?)
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I certainly do.
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Lisa Chabot I do, and it was a lie then too.
He also started his term with protests. Reagan had a mandate, so did Obama.
Clinton did too, though not as much.
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John Hardy not a Turnbull fan
“+Greg S and +Adam Black would you agree that Hillary would have had no mandate to enact her program if she had narrowly won the election in the college but lost the popular vote ?
Depends on the Program. To Stop the TPP?
yes Hillary would have had a mandate. Mild Gun Reforms ( the Polls show most people support the reasonable stuff like No Machine guns for Terrorists ) .
I’m not saying Trump has no mandates on any issues at all.
He had a mandate to purge Washington of Lobbyists influence. Rank and File Democrats support him There.
( but he won’t! )
He probably has a mandate to increase immigration restrictions, and mass deport violent criminals.
He did have a mandate to kill the Trade Deals. Both parties were flouting popular will for decades on that. He has a mandate to get tough on China as currency manipulator ( as did Barack ).
He doesn’t have a mandate to reverse gay rights. ( Even though he is ). He didn’t want to run against that, so he acted like he wouldn’t. Most Gays aren’t fooled, but it’s enough of a figleaf to let straights elect him.
Trump doesn’t have a mandate to pass all the crazy Republican shit they passed but Obama vetoed. Unfortunately most Americans are ignorant about that.
Trump doesn’t have a mandate to damage the EPA or Screw with NASA.
The problem is Republicans are holding into power when they haven’t had much of a mandate through vote suppression: Gerrymandering, Vote ID laws, removing polling stations , culling Registrations. Etc.
It’s just in American politics, this phrase ( Mandate ) has a different meaning: It’s a thought-stopping cliche used to Justify absurdites.
It’s like saying “I have an Invitation” ( to a dinner Party ) and showing up with the LA Lakers.
Why are the LA Lakers in my dining room?
“I have an Invitation”
The Cheerleaders?
“Invitation”
“What about Tom Cruise”
“My invitation says +Friend. ”
One Friend
“It’s a mandate for My Friend s. No restrictions specified”
Why is he raiding my medicine Cabinet?
“You can’t use that stuff around Tom”
It’s my House
“mandate”
There is no mandate. I didnt even invite you.
“It says My name right there: “Resident”
Get the Fuck out of my House
“Sorry, It’s mine for four years.”
That’s America.
The problem here is that the votes she won that added to the popular vote were all in states she already had.
See that’s actually a mandate.
Too bad real mandates don’t count at all legally.
So as for “mandate” which I take to mean the legitimacy of winning
That part is wrong. It’s social sanction based on overwhelming popular support and will.
and the right to enact a political program on behalf of the population that elected him, then I think that’s a fact.
This part is right.
The American system magnifies the appearance of popular will. It also counts broad and thin geographic support while ignoring deep support.
( ironically in places where an actual mandate exist, counts against the candidate )
Because it’s an argument purely about popular will, and not ( necessarily ) legitimacy, losing the popular vote by a large margin counts as not having an actual mandate ( in General ) .
If Trump did Broadly popular things, he could build on that.
But he won’t.
So he will probably start a war.
My Countrymen are idiots. Maybe I shouldn’t be an American.
Just Don’t expect me to apologize for this Asshole when millions die.
I did what I could. Many of you are more influential than me.
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