Both the burqa and the bikini are ridiculous extremes, IMO. The “normal” dress is what the men are wearing, with enough protection from the elements while allowing for free expression and work by exposing the head and forearms.
Ashley Wilson, the “normal” dress for swimming is no dress at all. Go to any country where the influence of Christianity or Islam is not yet too strong. Go to the river and watch the people bathing.
I want you to make a mental experience on “normality”.
Suppose I am on a beach in the USA. I remove all my clothes, get naked because Taranis of my celtic Nature-loving religion commands me to do it.
What will happen with police authorities ?
The issue of burkini is ridiculous, both from the side of women doing it and from authorities reaction.
5 years ago, there was no burkini problem, 15 years ago, there was no burqa problem. And 20 years ago, niqab was exceptional.
What happened is that we substitute integration by exception. The ban on burkini is, I repeat, ridiculous. We should leave these women suffer under the sun and have issues with salt and sand in the clothes. Soon they will go back to lighter dress.
By focusing a debate, it simply helps the partisans of Le Pen.
However, it should be very separate from the religious signs law, prohibiting burqa, niqab, big crucifix, kippah etc. in primary and secondary school.
Let us be very clear. Secularism exists in two versions. In the USA and most Anglo-Saxon countries, one has to allow everyone to practice a religion. Thus the public space becomes a multi religious space.
In Europe, the public space is a-religious because religion is private sphere.
“And when you pray, close the door of your bedroom and pray in silence”, I think it’s in Matthew…
Appropriate to recall that while the rest of the interpretation isn’t super-easy, what first riles God in Eden after the so-called “Original Sin”, is the kids covering themselves without true reason.
I don’t think the burkini should be an issue. There are plenty of women who would prefer to cover up while swimming, instead of baring all in a swimsuit, but they feel they have to bow to social pressure or not go in.
France was not too critical of the French nationals going to Syria to fight jihad against other Muslims. Any warnings were ignored. Now too eager to deflect responsibility by pointing to easy targets like burkini wearing women.
Akira Bergman, at the contrary. Thousands were stopped at airport. Last time I was at CDG airport, 3 were stopped on a flight to Ankara. The time before, 2 were denied boarding, 1 boy and 1 girl.
Olivier Malinur too little too late. Some in the west salivated over the probability of a cheap regime change in Syria. They preferred to ignore the warnings.
The Syria Jihad started before 2013. Besides the ratio of stoppage to passage remains unknown. Credible sources reported a lot of French nationals fighting alongside Australian, UK, US and others. I was in Australia at the time, and saw how the government hushed up reports of Australian jihadists in Syria.
I also remember clearly the western reaction when the Sunni Arabs declared a jihad on the Alawite Syrian state.
Yes you need to cast your minds back to 2011 at the height of the US State Department’s enthusiasm for spreading democracy throughout the Middle East via colour-coded revolutions and assorted “Springs”. In those days all kinds of jihadists were welcome to spill their own blood in Syria. There was plenty of money coming from all sides to bankroll these insurgencies, not just the US but also from Turkey and Israel and also those bastions of democracy, the Gulf States and Saudi Arabia.
In Ontario, it has been legal for women to go topless in public for more than two decades, but almost none bother to do so, even at the beach. When a woman does walk down the sidewalk topless (I’ve seen only two or three over the past couple of decades), it’s surprising, but not a big deal otherwise — to be fair, few men walk around topless, either. Contrary to your claim, Canadians (and many Americans) are fairly easy-going about nudity at cottages, beaches, and parks, though it’s considered polite to keep it on private property or areas where it’s become common (like unofficial nude beaches or nude areas of parks).
One issue with public nudity — which goes against the primitivist fantasy about “natural humans” — is that Canada is cold part of the year and has has high U/V for the other part. The latter is extremely dangerous for people of northern-European heritage like me, with pale skin, light hair, and light eyes. If we were forced to bare skin all the time, you’d see a lot more people dying young.
I mean seriously, these poor people lost all their skin pigments after generations of living away from the equator. They’re a bit like those fish that live in caves which have lost the ability to see.
Never Stop Posting 
Both the burqa and the bikini are ridiculous extremes, IMO. The “normal” dress is what the men are wearing, with enough protection from the elements while allowing for free expression and work by exposing the head and forearms.
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It’s the men fighting over what a woman should wear that gets me. Perhaps she should get to decide
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Ashley Wilson, the “normal” dress for swimming is no dress at all. Go to any country where the influence of Christianity or Islam is not yet too strong. Go to the river and watch the people bathing.
They remove their clothes.
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The normal dress for her should be whatever she prefers to wear without significant influence by the men.
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:”))
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Actually, just read that: theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2016/aug/25/beyond-burkinis-why-science-suggests-all-clothes-should-be-banned
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I want you to make a mental experience on “normality”.
Suppose I am on a beach in the USA. I remove all my clothes, get naked because Taranis of my celtic Nature-loving religion commands me to do it.
What will happen with police authorities ?
The issue of burkini is ridiculous, both from the side of women doing it and from authorities reaction.
5 years ago, there was no burkini problem, 15 years ago, there was no burqa problem. And 20 years ago, niqab was exceptional.
What happened is that we substitute integration by exception. The ban on burkini is, I repeat, ridiculous. We should leave these women suffer under the sun and have issues with salt and sand in the clothes. Soon they will go back to lighter dress.
By focusing a debate, it simply helps the partisans of Le Pen.
However, it should be very separate from the religious signs law, prohibiting burqa, niqab, big crucifix, kippah etc. in primary and secondary school.
Let us be very clear. Secularism exists in two versions. In the USA and most Anglo-Saxon countries, one has to allow everyone to practice a religion. Thus the public space becomes a multi religious space.
In Europe, the public space is a-religious because religion is private sphere.
“And when you pray, close the door of your bedroom and pray in silence”, I think it’s in Matthew…
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And it’s working so well!
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Appropriate to recall that while the rest of the interpretation isn’t super-easy, what first riles God in Eden after the so-called “Original Sin”, is the kids covering themselves without true reason.
LikeLike
I don’t think the burkini should be an issue. There are plenty of women who would prefer to cover up while swimming, instead of baring all in a swimsuit, but they feel they have to bow to social pressure or not go in.
LikeLike
France was not too critical of the French nationals going to Syria to fight jihad against other Muslims. Any warnings were ignored. Now too eager to deflect responsibility by pointing to easy targets like burkini wearing women.
LikeLike
Akira Bergman, at the contrary. Thousands were stopped at airport. Last time I was at CDG airport, 3 were stopped on a flight to Ankara. The time before, 2 were denied boarding, 1 boy and 1 girl.
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Olivier Malinur too little too late. Some in the west salivated over the probability of a cheap regime change in Syria. They preferred to ignore the warnings.
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Too late ? I am speaking of 2013 and 2015.
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The Syria Jihad started before 2013. Besides the ratio of stoppage to passage remains unknown. Credible sources reported a lot of French nationals fighting alongside Australian, UK, US and others. I was in Australia at the time, and saw how the government hushed up reports of Australian jihadists in Syria.
I also remember clearly the western reaction when the Sunni Arabs declared a jihad on the Alawite Syrian state.
LikeLike
Yes you need to cast your minds back to 2011 at the height of the US State Department’s enthusiasm for spreading democracy throughout the Middle East via colour-coded revolutions and assorted “Springs”. In those days all kinds of jihadists were welcome to spill their own blood in Syria. There was plenty of money coming from all sides to bankroll these insurgencies, not just the US but also from Turkey and Israel and also those bastions of democracy, the Gulf States and Saudi Arabia.
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John Hardy not a Turnbull fan , this is the true issue.
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So, having committed so many sins, the French state’s war on burqini looks a bit silly.
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Olivier Malinur
In Ontario, it has been legal for women to go topless in public for more than two decades, but almost none bother to do so, even at the beach. When a woman does walk down the sidewalk topless (I’ve seen only two or three over the past couple of decades), it’s surprising, but not a big deal otherwise — to be fair, few men walk around topless, either. Contrary to your claim, Canadians (and many Americans) are fairly easy-going about nudity at cottages, beaches, and parks, though it’s considered polite to keep it on private property or areas where it’s become common (like unofficial nude beaches or nude areas of parks).
One issue with public nudity — which goes against the primitivist fantasy about “natural humans” — is that Canada is cold part of the year and has has high U/V for the other part. The latter is extremely dangerous for people of northern-European heritage like me, with pale skin, light hair, and light eyes. If we were forced to bare skin all the time, you’d see a lot more people dying young.
LikeLike
I mean seriously, these poor people lost all their skin pigments after generations of living away from the equator. They’re a bit like those fish that live in caves which have lost the ability to see.
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